65 427 S/C ROADSTER PROJECT

Up Tire Choices Wheel Ideas Vanity Plates Sheet Metal IRS Rear End Cooling System Fuel Supply System Explorer Fuel Rails Engine Details Encyclopedia CSX Gallery Bullet Wheels Brake System Blue Paint Choices Accessory Diet
Encyclopedia

ENCYCLOPEDIA FOR FFR ASSEMBLY


By John Minton    15 Feb 2003

TABLE OF CONTENTS  

·                  ALIGNMENT

·                  ALUMINUM PANELS

·                  BATTERY

·                  BODY FIT OUT

·                  BODY PREPARATION AND PAINTING

·                  BODY STRIPE

·                  BRAKES

·                  BUILD SEQUENCE AND TIPS

·                  COOLING

·                  DRIVE TRAIN

·                  ELECTRICAL

·                  EMERGENCY BRAKE

·                  ENGINE

·                  EXHAUST

·                  FINISHES

·                  FRAME MODIFICATIONS

·                  FUEL SYSTEM

·                  GENERAL INFORMATION

·                  GAUGES

·                  HEATER

·                  OPTIONS LIST

·                  MAINTENANCE

·                  PEDALS

·                  REAR END

·                  ROLL BAR

·                  SEATS

·                  SUPPLIES

·                  STEERING

·                  SUSPENSION

·                  TOOLS

·                  WHEELS AND TIRES

·                  WIPERS

 

ALIGNMENT

 

TOE IN ADJUSTMENT

The adjusters, no matter whose kit, are not incorrectly machined. They are incorrectly named! They (we) call them couplers. The coupler is assembled to the rod end and held with the jam nut. On our coupler, there is a hex section for the purpose of tightening the jam nut. When assembled, the unit is the same as a standard outer tie rod end, with right hand female threads.
The OEM Mustang rack has a hex section or flats on the inner tie rod end. (the FR rack omits this feature) The normal way to set toe is to loosen the inner tie rod end boot clamp, rotate the inner tie rod end to set the toe, fix the setting with the jam nut against the outer tie rod end (or coupler) and then replace the boot clamp. In the case of the Flaming river, just replace the crimped metal clamp with a zip tie.

While I'm at it, if you want a bump kit that does not require drilling the spindles, Breeze offers an exclusive kit (70049 Rod End Tie Rod End Kit, $149, now with nickel plated studs and couplers) (Mark Reynolds)

Front Suspension

Do It Yourself Alignment Article, http://www.ffcobra.com/FAQ/irs.html

Front End Alignment Specs:

(GL) "Align it to 1 degree neg camber, 4 degrees pos caster, 0 toe. I am assuming you are using 17" tires. Tire pressures should be 23psi front and 27psi rear on a good gauge." - Solid axle car.

[FFR]:

Street Car:

3 degree caster : -1/2 degree camber : 1/16th degree total toe in.

Coupe and IRS Street Cars:

Front: Caster 3 : Camber -1 : Toe 1/16" Total

Rear: Camber -1 : Toe 1/16" Total

 

Camber Simplified

Camber is the tilt of the tire as viewed from the front of the car. If the top of the tires lean toward the center of the car then you have negative camber. If the top of the tire tilts out away from the center of the car then you have positive camber.

Adjusting camber can have a dramatic effect on the cornering of your car. Most oval track racers run negative camber on the right side of the car and positive camber on the left. Optimum camber settings will result in more speed and ideal tire wear.

Camber is measured with a caster camber gauge and is usually easily adjusted with shims or adjustable upper a-arms. Always check the toe when making camber or caster adjustments.

The amount of static camber that you should run is a result of testing, pyrometer measurements, front suspension geometry and discussions with your car builder. Remember that poor camber settings will cause excessive tire wear. Camber settings set to extremes can reduce the braking ability of the car.

Caster Simplified

To understand caster you need to picture an imaginary line that runs from through the upper ball joint and extends through the lower ball joint. From the side view the imaginary line will tilt forward or backward. The tilting of this imaginary line is defined as caster.

Caster is measured in degrees by using a caster camber gauge. If the imaginary line described above tilts towards the back of the car, at the top, then you will have positive caster. If the imaginary line tilts forward then you would have negative caster.

Positive caster provides the directional stability in your racecar. Too much positive caster will make the steering effort difficult. Power steering will allow you to run more positive caster. Negative caster requires less steering effort but can cause the car to wander down the straightaway.

For oval track racing most racers run more positive caster on the right side tire than on the left. The caster split helps pull the car down into the turn, helps the car turn in the center and helps it stay hooked up on exit.

How much caster should you run? The amount and split depends on the type of car and track conditions. The details should be worked out with your car builder and through testing.

Toe Simplified

Toe is the pointing in or pointing out of the front wheels as viewed from the top of the car. If the front wheels point in, toward the engine, at the front edge of the wheels then you have toe in. If the front wheels point out at the front edge then you have toe out.

In general, racecars are set with a small amount of toe out. The toe out provides directional stability. Toe out pulls on the tie rods taking out the tiny clearances that are built into the tie rod ends. Depending on the type of car typical toe readings are 1/16" to ¼" out for tracks under ½ mile in length.

Toe should be checked often as any contact with other cars or retaining walls is likely to change your toe setting. Changes in ride height can have an effect on toe as well.

Toe can be set with a pair of toe plates that are rested on the sidewalls of the tires. A tape is placed on the toe plates in front of the tire and an additional tape behind the tire. When using toe plates a smaller tape reading on the back tape indicates toe out.

For a very precise reading you can scribe a line in each front tire. Use a tire scribe and spin each of the front tires to get your straight line. You can then measure between the two scribed lines with a tape measure or with a toe bar. As with toe plates, a smaller measurement at the backside of the tire indicates toe out.

Some racers use a toe bar to measure the toe that lies against the sidewall on one side of the racecar. On the other side, this toe bar extends past the sidewall by a few inches. A tape is used to measure from the toe bar back to the sidewall. When this system is used a smaller tape reading at the front of the tire indicates toe out. You will notice that this is opposite the two other methods described above.

 

Setting Toe Properly

You will get better more consistent results adjusting your toe in settings if you go the extra mile to eliminate variables. You must first decide which technique that you plan to use to take the measurements. Each technique offers different benefits and drawbacks. The methods discussed here will be the Toe Plate method, Toe Bar Method and Tire Scribe Method. If you understand each toe setting technique you will be assured of repeatable results.

Before you begin taking measurements you must insure that the car is race ready. Ride heights set, weight percentages correct, driver weight accounted for, bump steer set, camber and caster set, Ackerman set, air pressure set, stagger correct....you get the idea. You should also inspect the steering components and replace any that are worn or bent. Center up the steering before you begin. Center the drag link or rack so that the inner control pivots and inner tie rods are centered to each other. Tie rod lengths should be adjusted to match you lower control points if possible.

String the right side of the car to line up the right front to the right rear. By lining up the right side and starting with the right front in line with the right rear you will eliminate any Ackerman effect that is in the car. If the wheels are turned away from straight when you take your toe measurement the Ackerman effect can add toe out that will not be present when the wheels are straight ahead. Take the time to string the right side and you will get more precise results. Make sure to settle the car and roll it forward just before taking a reading. By rolling forward the caster in the car will pull the front wheels take any clearance in your suspension components all in one direction. Be sure not to let the car roll back after you have rolled it forward. By rolling the car forward each time you will get more accurate repeatable results. Be sure to roll the car back then forward after each adjustment to relieve any pressure in the tire and suspension components.

When taking toe measurements that utilize the side wall it is a good idea to spin each front tire and mark the high spots on the side wall with a piece of chalk. Jack up the car and spin the RF wheel. Hold a piece of chalk on a jack stand about 1/8" away from the sidewall. Spin the tire and see if the chalk hits anywhere on the sidewall. If the chalk does not leave a mark then move the chalk gradually closer until you get marks on the high spots. Then find the uniform spots on the side wall and orient the tire so that those points will touch the Toe bar or toe plate when the car is on the ground. Lower the car and repeat the process on the other side.

Toe Plate Method: Toe plates offer fast and easy measurement of the front end alignment. When using toe plates be sure to have the toe plates resting flat on the ground and centered on the tire. You should always be sure to have the toe plates flat against the side wall. Make sure that the plate is up against the side wall evenly on both sides. Air up the tires so that there is not a bulge at the bottom of the tire in the center due to under inflation. Go the extra mile and mark the high spots of the side wall with chalk. Use a tape measure to check the back of the tire and the front between toe plates. The toe plate method should give you a smaller number at the back of the tire if you want to have toe out. Remember that any bent wheels or imperfections in the side wall will affect your settings.

Toe Bar Method: When using a toe bar make sure that the toe bar is held in the same place on the side wall each time on both sides of the car. Make sure that the toe bar is straight up and that equal pressure is place both front and back. Chalk the wheels and take your measurements. Measure the difference from the toe bar to the side wall on the back and on the front. To have toe out you will need to see a larger measurement on the back side of the tire. This is opposite of the toe plate and Tire Scribe measurement techniques. Any wheel run out or side wall imperfections will have an effect on your readings.

Tire Scribe Method: Start by scribing a line in each front tire. By spinning the tire and scribing a line with a tire scribe you will take out any variables to bent wheels or side wall wobbles. Measure the front and back of the tire. A smaller number at the back side of the tire will produce toe out.

Regardless of the method used you should use care to adjust the tire rods equally so as to keep the geometry of the front end correct. Be sure to tighten all jamb nuts and other steering components as well as visually inspecting the steering system. All three methods can give you good results if you take your time and eliminate as many variables as possible.

 

ALUMINUM PANELS

 

RIVETING

I've been reading Carroll Smith's book, "Nut's Bolts, Fasteners, and Plumbing Handbook". He devotes an entire section on rivets and riveting techniques - a subject near and dear to our hearts. Also a subject that I didn't know there was so much to know about!

Anyway, I'm reading the book and thinking about installing all these rivets in my car. There should be a distinction between structural and non-structural rivets. And it seem that the FFR design is to use non-structural rivets in a structural area. The non-structural 1/8 pop rivet has a shear strength of about 200 lbs. The structural rivet has a shear strength of about 600 lbs. If you increase in size to 3/16, the shear strength is over 1,000 lbs.

Initially, there would not be a problem. But after a few years and a few thousand miles, things would start getting loose due to metal fatigue, and the car would begin to rattle and the handling would fade. That rattling and clunking can drive you crazy. After a few years, you could R&R most of the rivets to tighten them up again. But who wants to do that?
So I'm thinking that I can order a couple boxes of Cherry Q 3/16 structural rivets at about $21 a box and a few #11 drill bits from McMasters-Carr. I'm not really sure what would be structural. But I'll assume that any aluminum panels attached to steel tubing would be structural. Any panel attached to another panel would not be. So I'll drill all the holes with a #11 drill bit, and set the stronger/larger rivets at 1.5 - 2.0" spacing. bob)

Using 1/8" drill bits instead of #30 bits: a constant aggravation. (Forrest 1)

On a side note we never use 1/8 in bits, we use #30s as they are .03 larger than an 1/8 and make for almost never having to redrill a hole. Richard Oben)

If I may suggest an inexpensive alternative to all the welding and epoxying being suggested, I just used 1/8" stainless rivets instead of the cheezy aluminum ones. I realize that the silicone does the work of bonding, but the steel rivets pulled everything together more tightly before snapping than the aluminum ones did. I was also careful to run a thin (1/8") bead of silicone right across the rivet holes, so it sealed them up as it spread across the joint area. I used GE silver colored silicone and it actually looks pretty good. If you have some cheesecloth and denatured alcohol handy, the GE stuff cleans right up when fresh. You can use the cloth and alcohol to fillet all the joints and clean up excess silicone. It cleans up better when fresh than it does dry. (Joe Leone)

RIVNUTS

My son thinks I must have stock in the rivnut company. Every time I look at something I wonder if it would work better with a rivnut.

So far, I have used them for the trans tunnel, the shifter ring, the lower radiator panel where it mounts to the body, the rear cockpit wall to the body (all #10's). To mount the coil, vapor canister, starter solenoid, cable clamps for larger harnesses to the 3/4" tubing the vacuum sensors/solenoids (1/4") as well as to allow me to use 3/8" shoulder bolts to hold up the side pipe hangers (5/16")

I just don't like using the sheet metal screws.
And the transmission tunnel had me worried that the rivets were under a lot of stress. (Grock)

RIVNUTS are super little gizmos. But, like all things mechanical, there are a few tricks you'll want to use. Don't over pull them, because the threads rip out pretty easily. Just before you put them in for the final time, put a little dab of JB Weld or epoxy on them. Once they are installed, the JB Weld will act like a "key" so they won't spin. Finally, before you mount whatever it is you are using these for, run a screw or tap through to straighten out any threads that distorted during the installation. (Joe Leone)

DRIVER FOOTBOX ALUMINUM ASSEMBLY ORDER

The "book" says that after installation of the donor pedal box , the builder should seal and rivet the front driver foot-box panel...if this is done....it would make it impossible to install the rest of the driver foot-box aluminum....is this a mistake in the book (page 53 step 8) or am I misreading the instructions?

(Gordon Levy replies) Install the front, inside and bottom of the drivers foot box. Leave off the top and the outside panel until you are ready to install the body.

BUILD SEQUENCE

I installed the all rear cockpit aluminum (the big piece) before I installed the upper trunk floor. Fortunately, I had Russ's trunk kit - so I was able to cut out the hoop and get the piece in that way. (John Hudson)

Was very careful in aligning, drilling, and clecoing all of the aluminum for the foot boxes and floorboards before riveting. Everything was perfect until I tried to install the front vertical piece that ties both sides together. Lots of flexing of that piece to finally get it to fit (it actually cracked on one corner). If I had it to do over I would definitely include that vertical piece in the alignment process before doing any riveting. (David Douglas)

TREATING ALUMINUM PANELS

I'm using a process from the aircraft industry which is quite simple and inexpensive. Etch and alodine. Both processes are water based, easy to do and provide corrosion protection. The chemicals can be obtained from any of the aircraft suppliers. The only drawback is that the aluminum takes on a slightly gold tint when done...doesn't bother me. E-mail if you need a source for the chemicals. (Bob G)

 

BATTERY

BATTERY FLOAT CHARGER

On the boat, and I will do this on the Cobra build as well, I installed a 12V accessory jack directly to the battery through a 10 amp fuse, nothing else on the circuit. I then bought the charger that Wal mart sells, (small black potted unit for about $23) and wired a standard 12V plug to it. When I put the boat away for a time, I just plug into the jack and leave the charger on. It charges the battery to float voltage, then a red LED comes on to indicate a full charge. The last set of batteries I bought for the boat are over five years old now and still going strong. (Rick Harper)

I use one on my Optima battery. In fact, I just posted on another thread the advantage of having a power outlet connected directly to the battery on the rear cockpit wall. I can use the battery disconnect switch and cut of the rest of the system while I use my trickle charger to keep the battery topped off (John Hudson) Uses a model called Battery Tender.

BODY FIT OUT

 

DOOR PANEL TIP

I used 5/32" hardboard treated for waterproofing. This can be found at your local upholstery shop. The foam was about 1/16" or so and then vinyl over that. Cushy soft.(WeenDoggy)

 

PREFERRED METHOD OF PLUMBING DEFROSTER VENTS

http://www.cobraforum.com/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=3276;start=0

 

HOMEMADE DEFROSTER DUCT

I couldn't figure out any way to get a standard plastic defroster fitting to fit behind my AutoMeters, so I crafted my own fiberglass ductwork. Not real purty, but it seems to work ok.

I made a rectangular "mold" out of some poster board, and lined it w/ wax paper. I molded the basic ductwork using fiberglass mat and west systems epoxy. When it dried, I trimmed it and used a hole saw to cut a 2" hole. Then cut some thin aluminum (soda can), and rolled it up w/ wax paper on the outside and stuck it through the 2" hole to use as a form. I glassed the outside of that to form the 2" nozzle. Once done, I cut relief's every few inches so the whole works would bend enough to conform to the underside of the cowl, and glassed it in.

I cut the slots in the body with a plunge router and 3/8" bit. Worked like a charm. Use a straight-edge clamped to the body so the router doesn't get away from you! (Wade Chamberland - Cobra Forum)

FIREWALL INSULATION

That Home Depot stuff is Mylar coated polyethylene intended for household use. It might make you feel good thinking you've provided some heat protection, but only real heat shielding will do the job right. You need a double faced aluminum/ceramic fiber sandwich at least 3/16" thick to provide heat resistance 2" from the headers. I did the foot boxes, firewall and tunnel with such a product and the floors with a 1/2" automotive sound barrier. I only used the Home Cheapo crap for the rear bulkhead to provide a little extra cushioning. Here's a good starting point, but there are many other sources.

Insulshield <http://www.insulshield.net/pages/products.html>(Joe Leone)

 

BRAKE VENT BOOTS

http://www.ffcobra.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=013293 (Cobra Earl)

CARPET UNDERLAYMENT

I think I'll go Thermo-tec on the foot boxes/firewall, Dynamat on the floors and transmission tunnel, and the Home Depot roof stuff on the rear wall. How much of the Thermo-Tec insulation should I buy for the foot boxes and firewall? How much Dynamat should I buy for the floors and trans tunnel. No problem with the Home Depot stuff as I could do the house for $100.(Tom )

CLEAR FENDER GUARDS

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17840&highlight=rear+fender+guard+clear

HOOD AND TRUNK LIFT SHOCKS

Actually Excalibur did all the science...

Mine are Stabilus "Lift o Mat":

Hood - Part #752908 0250N 330/96

Trunk - Part #FEN117 0210N 315/92

Available from: Van Tech 952 808 8629

Or ...Stabilus has a Web site where you can find a distributor
near you.

TIP FOR MOUNTING INTERIOR DOOR FINISH PANELS

Use "Christmas tree" type studs into predrilled holes

DOOR PULLS

Europa Specialist Spares, UK... page 17... item stock number (BSGH)... Chrome swivel grab handles (2) @ £11.00 ea = £22.00 = $35.20 + shipping and handling (Back in August 2000). They’re a little pricey... but they do the job... in keeping with the vintage style of the chrome MGB/carriage door latches (they’re probably more reliable too). (Bob Aruba)

FOOTBOX VENTS

The ducts I used were from Lefthander chassis, (815)389-9999. They are 5x9.75 and available with 3" hole centered or offset. Part #102-7009 is offset and 102-7022 is centered. Trimming is required to fit the face to the curved opening, then glass it in. $18.00 each, ask for a catalog...400 pages of good stuff!

You can go into Portland to Race Central, <http://www.racepartsnow.com/>, and they have lots of ducts that you could rig up behind the front end.

Cobra Restorers Ltd sells fresh air accessories......every thing you need.

I just installed aluminum blast gates from Grizzly and will use 3" aluminum flex tube to the brake vent holes. I have not gotten to the connection at the front yet but will probably use modified heat duct if I can't find something in fiberglass.

SEAT BELT SHOULDER HARNESS ANGLE

Seriously! Use your shoulder belts! But mount them correctly! We’re talking about incredible G-force loading should you ever experience an unexpected frontal impact, which can be (read) thousands of pounds for a typical male 170-250 pounds. And to contribute to minimal spinal compression injuries attempt to make sure the belts are at the very least mounted at least 5 degrees above the shoulder line to eliminate compressive forces in a frontal impact.

Shoulder harness mounts should be mounted high... close to shoulder level or higher. Otherwise you will be pushed down... not held back in the seat. But the angle up should not exceed 5 degrees for an upright driver position. Use your shoulder belts guys... they work!

TIP FOR TRUNK CARPET TEMPLATES

If you are planning on upholstering the interior of the trunk, and you are not planning on buying one of the precut carpet kits, I've got a tip for you. BEFORE you install the aluminum trunk floor pieces, take 5 minutes and make a template of them...complete with all the holes for roll bar and belt mounts. It's five minutes that'll save an hour or two of trying to make templates by cutting little bits of poster board around all the obstructions.
(Oldguy)

SHORTENED ROLL BARS

I shortened mine by about 2.5", and I think it's still more than 2" above my head. The original front mounting points stayed where they were, but the rear mounting stub had to be moved forward about 3" to fit without rebending anything. I can give you exact measurements as to the length of the uprights and diagonal if you want. Once the cuts are made, you simply slice the rear stub off the frame with a sawzall and move it forward until it fits the diagonal brace and weld it there. You also need to relocate the hole in the body, but that's just trial and error. Joe Leone)

INSTALLING SEATS

I have the Sube Cobra Classics and love 'em. I always felt like I was sitting on a barstool in the FFR seats and got a sore back after a few hours. With my new seats I've driven eight hours straight no problem. Like others said, you should pay $190 from any Sube dealer, not $250. I bought mine through Whitby.

With respect to mounting, I don't think you'll be able to use seat tracks. When you square up the seats their width puts the inboard side tight up against the trans tunnel. Due to the outward angle of the tunnel you won't be able to slide the seats forward. In fact, once I got the seats positioned where I wanted them I used a BFH and dimpled in the tunnel aluminum to allow the seat to sit square. They were tentative taps at first but by the end I was swinging a maul into the aluminum to get a nice dimple. Don't worry, wack away because you can't see the dimple when the seats are in.

The seat mounting holes do not line up with the frame. I mounted the seats on a 1/4" thick sheet of aluminum and then bolted the aluminum to the frame. Others have welded in brackets under the floor for mounting. One last thing, you'll have to move the parking brake forward about 1 1/2" inches.

For detailed installation pictures, go to Weendoggy's site. He was a big help to me with installation tips. (Rick Williams)

HOOD HINGE MODIFICATION

http://www.cobraforum.com/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=3175;start=0

I used the hinge from onlinecobra.com to do both trunk and hood. Easy install and works great.(Joe Leone)

WIND WING ATTACHMENT

I'm about ready to start the install of my Wind Wings. However I remember reading earlier that people recommend not useing the existing screws in the windshield frame for attaching the Wings. My instructions say to do just that. What is the reason not to use these screws? (Duane FFR2704)

The screws that hold the sides of the windshield on are threaded into brass (about 2 threads). Drill new holes (at the same place just toward the rear) and put nuts and bolts on the wing window mounts. This will make them fit nicer too. (Jeff Hamilton )

Best bet is to drill and tap threads. I found that easier and less stressing because I did not have to worry about cracking my windshield. For a flush fit, one can cut the supplied bolts to length and avoid using the acorn nuts on the inside of the frame. (Jose Borja)

Of note, Bill has a good method to avoid cracking the wind wings and visors. He uses nylon washers on both sides of the wings. This goes a long way in preventing any cracking. (Duane FFR2704)

THROTTLE PEDAL

Russ Thompson's pedal is highly recommended.  Contact him at rtcobra@attbi.com
http://www.norcal-cobras.com/store/russ_garage/russ_garage.htm

 

BODY PREPARATION AND PAINTING

FENDER WELL GUARDS

I put "Devinicel" or something similar to that word inside my wheel wells while building my new car. It's foam sheet, scribed into 1" squares, so you can form it to the contour of the inner fender. You glue it down, then glass over it. There are some pics at Foam inner fender <http://www.webscando.com/phoenix/phoenix15.htm> and a written description of that procedure is somewhere in the build diary, hey I just found it: Foam install <http://www.acuraworld.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=676&perpage=20&pagenumber=4> go to the 6-16-02 entry. I'm sorry I don't know the exact name of the material used; it came from my fiberglass expert friends, but it's available at fiberglass supply shops. 8,000 miles so far on my new car with no visible fender damage, even over lots of dirt roads. Hope that helps. John Phillips)

UNDERCOAT TIP

For those undercoating their cars with truck bed liner products here is a good tip... Complete the under-liner first prior to painting the body. I did it the opposite way and taped off all openings real nice like so the shiny part would not be not so shiny. Turns out the underside of these bodies are real porous and the bed liner product soaks in like a sponge. Any pinholes or thin spots (mine were around wheel openings and headlight openings) bled up through the shiny side. If you were to apply the under side first the body prep to the top layer would cover the black.. My fix was with a small detail spray gun and it was a pain in the but! Joe )

Body Work Steps

Before the seams:

Put the body on the chassis and align all of the panels. Drill any holes for emblems, lights, etc, be sure to wash the body really good with a wax and grease remover, then follow with Comet on scotchbrite and hot water.

Seam Process:

I grind the seams and cut the body open and fill the seams with 3M vinyl ester blister repair filler in one day. I let it set for 2 weeks. I follow up with Rage to fair out the body, and let it set for a couple days, then prime it and let it set for a week or so. I block it and prime it again. if all looks well it will set for a couple weeks. In between I do the panels, hood and trunk hinges etc. After paint, I let it set for 3-5 days, and cut and buff it.

I wouldn't want to do it in any less than 30 days. Here's the reason. if you do the body work, prime it, it block it and shoot it in a week or so. then cut and buff it right away, it will look fantastic....for about a month. the fillers and primers will shrink, and you will have picturing under your paint. regardless of the types of fillers and primers that you use.

I use Rage and Rage Gold over the 3M vinyl ester blister repair filler. The repair filler is to do the filling of the ground out seam and that's all. If you try to use it beyond that, it makes a mess and is a B%$tch to sand. the vinyl ester filler is also difficult to sand. The main reason to use the blister repair filler is that it will not "picture" under the paint. that is the major concern with the way the seams are ground out. use the Rage to fair out the area. let it cure a couple days after you rough it in with 40 grit. then finish it out with 80 then 150 and prime it.

I do these cars in my sleep and faithfully use 3m's vinyl ester blister repair filler. a gallon will do 3 cars. use it for the seam area and deep work like you described, then fair it out with a high quality body filler like Rage. The vinyl ester repair filler has chopped fiber in it and uses a resin that is compatible with the body.

*Wipe down done with PrepsAll

Grinding seams:

As for grinding the seams, here is my preferred method. I use a DA with 80 grit and knock them down flat. you will see a "stripe" of gel coat in the middle of the bare glass. I use a die grinder with a 1/4" wide grinding stone and remove 99% of the stripe. you will probably go anywhere from 1/16"-1/8" deep. After the stripe is gone, I use and angle die grinder with a 50 grit disc to taper the void from the stripe. Tape it off about and inch wide and fill with 3m vinyl ester repair filler until it is just level, not above. I DA with 80 to make the transition smooth and then fair it out with Rage Gold.

When filling the seams, you might want to tape to contain and limit the mess. When you get to the Rage part... make sure the tape is gone allowing you to fair in the rage with the gel coat.

Seams:

On seams, the gray "stripe" of gel coat needs to go. the gel coat could separate and leave a crack. had it happen. better safe than sorry. take it down another 1/16" then use the 3m blister repair. Don't try to use it as a fairing, just fill until nearly level. follow up with rage to get the contour correct.

On spots where I went through the gel coat block sanding, around seams, and by the edges of body panels. I personally use Feather fill to cover the burn through areas, URO Primer should also work. Make sure you let it cure a few days before you block it. Also, if using West systems Rage works fine over it.

Hood and Hoop:

I use the 3M vinyl ester blister repair filler as a bonding agent for the hood hoop, but I also follow it up with a coat of fiberglass mat and vinyl ester resin.

3m's vinyl ester Blister repair filler for the initial fill, 3m vinyl ester fairing filler or Rage for the final fairing. About a quart and a half of the blister repair filler will do the seams on one car, and a gallon of Rage for fairing. the blister repair filler is also a very good bonding agent as listed on the spec sheet, or 3m's structural adhesive. I always follow with one layer of glass and resin as added insurance.

The 3m stuff goes on easy, It also matches the bodies composition better. on the back of the hood, it depends on if you are bonding the hinge on or not. If not, use gel coat with a surface curing agent added. If you are bonding the hinge on, use Rage to fair it out.

Wheel Openings:

I DA with 80 the edge down to a consistent 1/4" roll all the way around. sometimes the cutout is off so I have to build it up with glass.

Painting:

I use Featherfil for the first step, then Dupont's 2k Urethane filler primer. The Featherfil works very good for the first stage and you can glaze over it if you missed some pinholes. block it with 180 and follow up with a high quality 2k Urethane.

Base coat over K36 is fine, but make sure it is thoroughly sanded with no less than 400 grit. if you have any sand scratches deeper than 400, they will be hard to fill with the basecoat. if they aren't covered, they will show through the clear. single stage paints should have a sealer before they are sprayed or you could end up with a fisheye problem.

Clear can be wet or dry sanded, wet being the better was as the water washes away the dust and debris that could scratch the finish. as for sanding the base coat, you can as long as you lay a couple even coats just prior to clear. otherwise the scratches from sanding will be magnified by the clear coat.

Color sanding:

As for color sanding... Most clears say to wait 16-24 hours and cut with 1500. that is with optimal conditions i.e. 70d constant during that 16-24 hour window, as well as perfect mixing and application. well all painters know that if you don't have the optimal conditions, you must adjust the mixing, application, and dry time. I personally wait about 48 hours to color sand during the winter months, and about 36 hours during the summer, as I cannot always keep the shop at 70d and stay in business. anyhow, I start with 1000-1200 paper on a soft block like the one listed here using the black side. if you like a slight orange peel OEM look, use the gray side.
<http://www.motorguard.com/sur_1_1.html> follow with 1500. make sure you only sand what you can buff, i.e. no edges, door jambs etc. I buff with a Wool pad and Finessit III by 3m. I always cover each section twice. wash off the compound residue and follow that with 3m glaze on a black foam pad at slow speed(<1200 rpm). Use Hand glaze to remove any swirls and your done.

Undercoating:

The stuff I use is here
<http://www.mortonpaint.com/products/index.html>
it is a 2 part urethane epoxy that will coat bare fiberglass with no problems. you must scuff the bare fiberglass prior to coating.

I use the good stuff for the u/c. it builds to about 3/16" in one coat. it will prevent a rock from putting a star crack in your new paint. I thin it 10% for the spats and it works great. if I only used it for spats, it may cost about $20 in material 'cause I could do 10 cars with the kit. I can't say the same for the $3.99 a can stuff. it goes on like thick paint, stays kind of tacky, and peels off once it dries out when used as undercoat).

Spats:

I have done a few with the truck bed liner 2 part epoxy. it works really good, and is very durable. I also know quite a few who have used 3m's rocker shutz.

This is the stuff that I use
http://www3.uschem.com/uscp/display_product?pass_product_class=330&pass_ category_number=31&pass_catalog_number=1 <http://www3.uschem.com/uscp/display_product?pass_product_class=330&pass_category_number=31&pass_catalog_number=1>

I use it for spats, as well as for undercoating the backside of the fender wells. $180 per kit, I can undercoat and spat 2 ffr's.

Products:

1. 3M vinyl ester blister repair filler
2. Rage and Rage Gold
3. 3m vinyl ester fairing filler
4. PrepsAll
5. Featherfil

Products from Finishmaster. they are a national automotive paint supplier. my local rep called 3m and they drop shipped it directly to me.

Here is the link to the product that I use.
http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?xxxxxxfDPILxR9Yxj9Yxxx8 M2I_XXXXv- <http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?xxxxxxfDPILxR9Yxj9Yxxx8M2I_XXXXv->

I routinely use the 3m blister repair filler. a quart should do your seams
Rage you can get at any auto body supply store.

<http://www.motorguard.com/sur_1_1.html>

Buffing and cutting:

3M compounds:

Perfect-It 3 Rubbing compound
Perfect-It 3 Machine glaze
Perfect-It 3 Finishing compound

They were $20 to $30 per quart EACH

I used the 3M products as well in the following order after wet sanding.

3M(tm) Perfect-It tm) III Rubbing Compound

3M(tm) Perfect-It tm) III Machine Glaze

3M(tm) Perfect-It tm) III Finishing Glaze

By the way, if you are interested in any of these items and can't find them locally, you can find them all online at
<http://www.sherwin-automotive.com/>

I used the 3M compound pad for the compound
<http://www.cobralads.com/paint/DSC00009.JPG.html>

and then the softer buffing pads for the machine glaze
<http://www.cobralads.com/paint/DSC00010.JPG.html>

Web Sites:

http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?xxxxxxfDPILxR9Yxj9Yxxx8 M2I_XXXXv- <http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?xxxxxxfDPILxR9Yxj9Yxxx8M2I_XXXXv->

http://www3.uschem.com/uscp/display_product?pass_product_class=330&pass_ category_number=31&pass_catalog_number=1 <http://www3.uschem.com/uscp/display_product?pass_product_class=330&pass_category_number=31&pass_catalog_number=1>

<http://www.motorguard.com/sur_1_1.html>

<http://www.mortonpaint.com/products/index.html>

 

PRIMING

no real reason to use an epoxy primer over the glass, and definitely not over the body filler. PPG used to recommend priming anything that you worked on first with DP primer. then do your filling over it. I cannot get their old DP primer here in Cal, only their DP LF (lead free) version. definitely don't use it over or under your filler. anyhow, do your bodywork, fill as many pinholes as you can find, then prime with Featherfil. block sand that, and re-fill any leftover pinholes. if you are satisfied with the work, prime again with k-36. if not, do some more filling and fairing work. it's ok to do minor filling over Featherfil. anyhow, when it seams pretty smooth and wave free, prime with k-36, 2-3 coats. the k-36 will seal in the polyesters and give the body a smooth surface. block sand that with 280, then follow up with 400. if you don't burn through, you won't need to seal it. if you do, just shoot one final coat of k-36 reduced 10% with urethane reducer. sand it with 600 and you're ready for paint. good luck, cheers, SRP

SANDING BLOCK RECOMMENDATION

I use a sanding block made by Dura-block. it is high density foam rubber and it's about 1" in diameter. Eastwood sells the assortment of blocks including this one for $50. cheers, SRP

BODY PREPARATION VIDEO

To order, please send $15 to:
North Racecars, Inc.
7321 North Wayne Ave.
Gladstone, MO 64118
(816) 436-1610

WHEEL WELL COATING

I used the brush on bed liner. It worked very well. Although brushing it on takes longer I felt that I could do a neater job and not worry about over spray.

I have not heard of the stuff you mention. The only thing I would say is that I have heard some undercoating type products can actually eat through the fiberglass and effect your paint job.

I was very careful not to put the first coat on too thick. They say that you should put it on thinner than the other two coats.

Be sure and paint on a good coat of black epoxy to seal the glass surface before spraying/rolling the bed liner in the arches to seal the glass surfaces. If you do not do this, when stones or whatever loosens the liner it will create a void that will possibly fill with moisture that can possibly capillary thru to cloud the glass/paint at that point, depending on the amount of FGRP crazing.

UNDERBODY PAINT

I bought a gallon of paint on bed liner from Wal-Mart. The body is yellow w/ white stripes and the black wheel wells look great. Even better the stuff really works. It prevents any kind of road abrasion. I did the entire under body.

SEAM FILLER

I know why you want to use the flox and balloons since it's what you know. I thought the same thing before I started my seams. Don't worry about it. Do it SRP's way. Just get the 3M blister repair to fill the groove, and the Rage to do the top and shape it all out. It's just as easy (easier actually) than working with the epoxy, flox, and micro balloons. A couple of weekends and you'll be 90% done with the seams. (Advil)

I use Featherfil. some guys use slick sand, some use K-36 or K-200. if the body guy is comfortable using his product, it should be fine. just make sure that he doesn't change the seam filler. use only west system's epoxy, or 3m Vinyl ester repair filler. if he uses any other product for the main part of the fill, he will be re-doing it in a couple months. good luck, and as always, Cheers, (SRP)

I use Rage Gold. it matches the gel coat better than the 3m fairing filler. gel coat is polyester based. the main lay-up of the body is vinyl ester, hence the reason to use the vinyl ester for any deep filling. fair it out with Rage Gold. it sands easier and costs quite a bit less. cheers, (SRP)

Don't go much deeper than 1/8". also make sure you taper the ground out area to avoid a sharp edge at the top. sharp edges picture. neither the flox or micro balloons are like Rage Gold. Hetonite and talc is what is in Rage Gold. both are compatible though if you plan to use Rage Gold over west systems. cheers, (SRP)

It is this stuff, called High strength repair filler #046014 a unique vinyl ester formulation. cheers, (SRP)

SRP, After many calls and visits to a few marine supply stores, I picked up 3M Marine Blister and Repair Filler #46013. In your earlier response you mentioned using #46014. Are you aware of any big difference between the two? Can I use the 46013 to bond my hood hoop? It may seem trivial but I rather not be picking my hood up off the road. (Vermont Cobra)

The item number is different on the quantity:
46014 = gallon size
46013 = quart size
46012 = pint size       (EJ's Wife)

HOOD HINGE BONDING

Oldguy, use the blister repair filler for your bonding agent. if you prefer to avoid using mat, then do the following. drill 4 to 6 1/4" holes in the plates that will attach to the body, (assuming you're using some type of different hood or trunk hinges than FF). the on the side not being bonded, use a countersink and taper those holes out to about 3/8". grind the back of the plates with a 40 grit disk. sand the corresponding area of the body with 80 grit as well. then, using the blister repair filler, bond the plates in place. the filler will ooze out the holes you drilled. spread the filler over the tapered hole. when it cures, it will not be removable, so make sure you have it right. hope this helps, Cheers, (SRP)

FIBERGLASS CRACK REPAIR

Ouch, materials: 3mblister repair filler or Mar-glass, Rage or Rage Gold body filler, die grinder with 40 grit grinding disc or dremel tool, wax and grease remover or Comet, 40 grit, 80 grit, 180 grit, and 400 and 1000 wet or dry paper. urethane primer, fiberglass mat, either polyester or vinyl ester resin with catalyst, adhesion promoter Dupont 222s(if you are going to attempt a blend), base color, clear coat. ok you need to make sure there's no wax on the surface, so clean with wax and grease remover, or comet/scotchbrite and hot water. find the end of the crack and drill a 1/8" hole through the body to stop the crack from going any further. with a die grinder and a 40 grit disc grind the crack into a V shape. then sand the surface about 2" beyond the crack with 80 grit. if the car was painted you will want to have an area about 1/2" on either side of the crack down to bare glass tapering out through the layers of gel coat, primer and paint to about 2-3". blow off any dust, and place masking tape on either side of the crack so that only the bare glass and crack are exposed. fill to just below level with 3m blister repair filler if you can find it, or Mar-glass. remove the tape and let cure. scuff the filler with 40 grit and skim coat the area with Rage or Rage Gold body filler. you will want to scuff sand the back of the crack at this point with 40 grit. make sure the area is clean before you scuff. cut a 2"x4" piece of mat, mix up the resin and lay-up one layer of resin and mat. go back to the rage and rough shape it with 40 grit, final shape with 80 grit, and then final sand it with 180. sand the surrounding area about 6" diameter) with 400 wet). then prime. let it set a few days. sand the primer with 400 wet, if the shape is good, then sand about a 12" area with 1000grit wet. now you're ready for a blend. if you need this info, let me know and I'll walk you through it as well. cheers, (SRP)

BONDED PLATES FOR BODY MOUNTING

I'm torn between two choices here. One the one hand, I'd be happy to leave the bolts as the primary fastening if I could get a really trick looking bolt. On the other hand, it'd be nice to have no bolts at all. Do you think 3M Blister repair is strong enough to bond stud plates to the inside of the body? I figured I could make up the plates (with plenty of holes), bolt the plates to the correct orientation, and then bond them to the finished body. I intended to use nuts on both side of the frame mounting plate instead of spacers, so I could jack the body stud plates right into position before bonding. What's your opinion? (Joe Leone)

That's precisely what I do. make sure you have them where you want them, once the blister repair filler cures, you would have to cut them off. also, do it before you paint. the blister repair filler generates quite a lot of heat when curing. it could bubble the paint. cheers, (SRP)

I use a piece of 1.5" x 6" 1/8" steel with 2 5/16" studs welded to it for each one. Cheers, (SRP)

SRP LONG BOARDS

As for long boards, I use several. if I catch the filler as it is curing and not too hard, I use an 18"durablock with stick it paper. if the filler is hard, I use a 18" aluminum shoed board. it has a thin layer of holy rubber on the paper side with a handle. if it is really hard, I use either my air file, or orbital air board by Hutchins. I use a shorter block for the tight areas, about 6-9" long, and a round block for the inside curves. those are made by Durra Block. good luck, (SRP)

ROLLED BODY EDGES

http://www.ffcobra.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=000062#000002

 

UNDERCOAT TIP

For those undercoating their cars with truck bed liner products here is a good tip... Complete the under-liner first prior to painting the body. I did it the opposite way and taped off all openings real nice like so the shiny part would not be not so shiny. Turns out the underside of these bodies are real porous and the bed liner product soaks in like a sponge. Any pinholes or thin spots (mine were around wheel openings and headlight openings) bled up through the shiny side. If you were to apply the under side first the body prep to the top layer would cover the black.. My fix was with a small detail spray gun and it was a pain in the but! Joe )

BODY SEAMS

like John said, I use 3m's vinyl ester line. I use the blister repair filler for the main seam work, then follow up with Rage. I haven't used the premium vinyl ester filler, but I'm sure it would work fine. I use Rage for the fairing after the main seam work, as it more closely matches the first primer that I use which is Featherfil. either way will work, but make sure your main fill is with a vinyl ester filler. cheers, SRP

this is the stuff. part # 046014 by 3m marine. cheers, SRP

PAINT PRODUCTS

Use Rage Gold for final fairing. Featherfil or Slicksand for you major blocking. if you can get it, move on to PPG k-36 for your final prime and block. I use Dupont color and clear, although I don't like most of their VOC compliant primers and I can't get K-36 either. I use Spies 2k primer, but any high quality 2k urethane primer will work for that step. block it with 280 and then seal. scuff sand the seal coat with 600 then spray. hope this helps, cheers, SRP

RAGE GOLD FAIRING FILLER

Is this the stuff you use? If so, how much do I need to do the new body? The guy that is going to paint mine also said I need to get some 2 pat epoxy stuff to finish it...any idea what he may be taking about? Rage Gold <http://shop.papaint.com/browse.cfm/2,148.html>

LONG BOARD RECOMMENDATION

I would keep it in the house so that the temp stays around 60-70d. if it gets too cold or too warm, it will separate and get lumpy. as for long boards, I use several. if I catch the filler as it is curing and not too hard, I use an 18"durablock with stick it paper. if the filler is hard, I use a 18" aluminum shoed board. it has a thin layer of holy rubber on the paper side with a handle. if it is really hard, I use either my air file, or orbital air board by Hutchins. I use a shorter block for the tight areas, about 6-9" long, and a round block for the inside curves. those are made by Durra Block. good luck, SRP

GUIDE COAT PAINT

Use only lacquer based paint in a rattle can for guide coat.

PAINT QUANTITY

I normally use 3 quarts, but buy a gallon for the main color. 1 quart for the stripes, and a gallon of clear, plus the activator and reducer. cheers, SRP

SPRAY GUN FOR PRIMER

also, yes a cheapo for your primer works good. Harbor Freight has a Central pneumatic that is decent for primer. about $75. cheers, SRP

PAINT RECOMMENDATIONS